 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 797, 14 January 2019 |
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Welcome to this year's 2nd issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Two hurdles Linux faces when trying to gain more mainstream appeal on desktop systems are support for more gaming titles and support from hardware retailers. This week we are happy to share good news on both of these fronts. In our News section we first look at the Debian team working on improving Secure Boot support on their distribution. Then we talk about Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE being shipped on new all-in-one (AIO) devices and discuss increasing support for Linux in Valve's Steam store. In our Feature Story this week we take an early look at two projects on our waiting list Reborn OS and TinyPaw-Linux and share what makes these distributions interesting. Plus we offer tips on how to deal with an unresponsive desktop environment. In our Opinion Poll we ask what tools our readers use to keep their systems running smoothly when rogue processes try to gobble up more resources than they should. As usual, we share the distribution releases of the past week and provide a list of the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a fantastic week and happy reading!
Content:
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (14MB) and MP3 (10MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Jesse Smith) |
Reborn OS 2018.11.28
Reborn OS is a distribution from the Antergos and Arch Linux family of distributions. Like Antergos, Reborn uses the Cnchi system installer and provides a wide range of desktop environments and extra features we can enable at install time. Reborn's website mentions the project offers support for running Android applications through the Anbox compatibility software, works with Flatpaks, and can run the Mycroft personal desktop assistant.
I had previously tried Reborn OS back in October of 2018 and gave up trying to install the distribution because Cnchi kept running into problems downloading packages, telling me it had run into "error: 0". Since failure to download packages during the installation rendered it impossible to set up Reborn, I had to abandon the project.
Shortly after my truncated review appeared, one of the Reborn developers got in touch and reported that the problem with Cnchi had been fixed and invited me to try the distribution again. I gave the project a few months (and updated releases) to mature and then decided to give Reborn another test drive.
The Reborn ISO file is a 1.6GB download. Booting from the media brings up the Budgie desktop environment and shows us a welcome window. The welcome window appears to be borrowed from Antergos and displays buttons which will provide us with information. Some buttons link to the project's on-line source code repository, others offer to show us available software, another gives us a quick overview of the operating system.
Using the welcome window I ran into my first problem with Reborn. Clicking some of the buttons caused the operating system to lock up. For example, browsing the software list caused the system to freeze, necessitating a reboot. When I clicked on the source repository link, the Firefox browser opened, displayed the page and then the system locked up, again forcing a hard reset of the computer.
Reborn OS 2018.11.28 -- Reborn's welcome screen
(full image size:668kB, resolution: 1366x768 pixels)
At this point I decided to stop exploring the live desktop and jumped into the Cnchi installer. The installer runs in a graphical window and feels similar in most respects to Ubuntu's Ubiquity installer or the Calamares installer. We are asked to select our preferred language from a list, select our country and select our time zone from a map. We are asked to confirm our keyboard's layout and then shown a list of available desktops. We can only choose one desktop to install, but the list of options is long and includes Budgie, Cinnamon, Enlightenment, GNOME, i3, KDE Plasma, LXQt, MATE, Openbox, Pantheon and Xfce. There is also one called "Windows interface", but its description does not say what technology is used to present the Windows-like view.
The installer next asks which features we would like to enable. Options include accessibility packages, system maintenance, AUR support, Bluetooth, Chromium, Firefox, LibreOffice, Mycroft, printing support, WINE, VLC and Spotify. The list goes on. I kept my selection short, sticking to some common desktop applications like LibreOffice, a web browser and Mycroft. Cnchi then asks if we want to let it sort its list of package mirrors or manually select mirrors. I took the recommended automated sort.
Partitioning comes next with the option of using guided or manual partitioning. I went with the manual option, and then had to wait as the installer told me it needed to finish sorting its mirror list before I could partition the drive. Once the mirrors are sorted, partitioning is straight forward and pleasantly streamlined. Finally, we are asked to provide a username and password for an account and the installer goes to work downloading and installing packages, over 700 packages in my case.
After waiting for about half an hour, Cnchi finally reported "Can't install necessary packages" and displayed the infamous error 0. Unfortunately there is no way to recover. The installer closes without telling us which package caused the problem, or giving us a chance to proceed anyway, or giving us the option to try another mirror. The installer closes and we are left to try again from step one. The project's documentation says we can try to work around the issue by manually editing the package list to remove the offending package, but that is difficult given there were over 700 packages to go through and Cnchi does not give us a clue as to which one caused the problem.
I ended up trying Reborn OS in a VirtualBox machine and on my laptop. In both cases I quickly ran into a dead end with the distribution. This was frustrating as it means that, despite the assurances of the developers that the system should now be reliable, the installer issue has not been fixed. If anything, it seems new stability issues have crept in since the last time I used the distribution.
I have been told the Reborn team is working on their own installer to replace Cnchi. Hopefully the new installer (which has not appeared yet at the time of writing) will make setting up the operating system more straight forward.
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TinyPaw-Linux 1.3
Next on my list of projects to try was one I had not downloaded before: TinyPaw-Linux. The distribution's website describes the project as "an extremely lightweight and portable WiFi pen-testing distro. One that wasn't bloated with non-essential tools and features and that could actually boot, run and perform from CD or USB."
TinyPaw is based on Tiny Core Linux. While the project has a tiny parent and began as a relatively small distro, it has grown quickly in size. Version 1.0 was published in December 2017 and was 294MB in size. Version 1.3 was launched in October 2018 and was a 740MB download. I suspect the extra weight was introduced through new packages and WiFi testing tools.
The latest version appears to be based on Tiny Core Linux 9.0. Booting from the project's live media loads the distribution into RAM, making it highly responsive. At least it does if the distribution completes the boot process. I began by running TinyPaw on a laptop and, though the system started its boot sequence and was able to load modules into memory, it then locked up, unable to get to its graphical interface and unresponsive to keyboard input.
I switched to trying TinyPaw in a VirtualBox environment and had better luck. The distribution booted into a minimal graphical environment which carries a strong red on black theme. A panel at the bottom of the screen holds quick-launch buttons for various WiFi tools, network scanners, a settings panel and a lightweight web browser called Fifth. There are also launchers for a virtual terminal, a text editor and the PCManFM file manager.
TinyPaw-Linux 1.3 -- The Fifth web browser and TinyPaw's settings panel
(full image size: 155kB, resolution: 1024x768 pixels)
Right-clicking on the desktop brings up an application menu which helpfully organizes tools into categories. This makes it easier to quickly find networking tools as opposed to password crackers or scanners.
I played around with a handful of the included utilities and found most of them worked. This allowed me to scan the network, try to brute force passwords and collect network traffic. Some tools did not work though. One would open a blank window that closed after a few seconds, one of the password crackers reported it was missing dependencies and refused to run. For the most part, TinyPaw gave me functioning tools, but occasionally one would fail or simply not run.
A bigger issue I ran into is that TinyPaw includes no manual pages and no local documentation for the tools it features. This means if we don't know what an application does, or we know what it does but want to learn how to use a command line parameter, we need to go on-line and search for the answer. This introduced a series of speed bumps into my trial since anytime I wanted to use a new tool I had to open a web browser, search for the tool, go to its website, hope the utility had on-line documentation and read that. This is quite a bit slower than just opening a local manual page.
A positive side-effect of having such a trim distribution (one without documentation and a full featured desktop environment) is the whole distribution only requires about 300MB of RAM. And it appears as though the distribution runs entirely from within memory, making programs open very quickly.
I had mixed feelings using TinyPaw-Linux. On the one hand, it does ship with some useful penetration testing tools and the platform is small and fast. However, the lack of local documentation and my inability to get the distribution to boot on physical hardware made it impractical for most scenarios in which I would want to use such a tool.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Debian tests Secure Boot, Ubuntu shipping on Entroware AIO, most highly popular Steam games run on Linux
The Debian team is experimenting with booting their distribution on machines with Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot strives to prevent the user from booting into compromised environments by checking for signed low-level components. This poses some challenges for Linux users who may have unsigned or custom kernels. People interested in helping Debian work out the bugs in their Secure Boot solution can follow the instructions in the project's wiki.
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Entroware is a computer manufacturer in the United Kingdom which sells personal computers and servers with Linux pre-installed. The company has unveiled a new all-in-one (AIO) system called Ares PC that ships with the customer's choice of Ubuntu or Ubuntu MATE. Forbes comments: "The baseline Ares starts at £739 (about 824 Euros) and includes a 24-inch 1080p matte display with built-in speakers, Intel Core-i3 8100 at 3.6GHz, 8GB of RAM clocked at 2400MHz, a 120GB SSD loaded with your choice of Ubuntu or Ubuntu MATE and a 3 year warranty. From there you can tinker with several upgrade options, stretching all the way to the fully-loaded £2689 Ares. Considering the size, it can pack a pretty considerable punch with a 6-core, 4.6GHz Intel Core-i7 8700, 32GB of RAM, and a 2TB NVMe SSD plus an additional 4TB SSD drive. You can also bundle an additional monitor, but it doesn't look like Entroware offers a 4K display option." Further details can be found on the Entroware website.
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Linux gamers should be pleased to learn that more and more popular gaming titles are becoming available. The GamingOnLinux website took a look at the most popular titles on Steam and discovered over half of the top 250 offer support for Linux. "Overall, out of the 250 most highly rated titles on Steam as reviewed by users, 132 of them have official Linux support. Compared with Mac which has 156, we're not far off there at all. Let's just remember how small the Linux gaming platform is compared to Windows, over 50% there really is impressive."
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Dealing with an unresponsive desktop
Purging-pop-ups asks: Earlier this year I switched to using Linux, specifically Ubuntu for my computing needs. I am running a background job that requires a lot of CPU, like 100% all the time, and it is making my desktop virtually unusable. Input is slow and I keep seeing pop-ups telling me "This application is not responding - close or wait?" Why does having just one big background process bring Linux to its knees and what can I do to fix this?
DistroWatch answers: Welcome to the Linux community, I'm glad you could join us. There are a number of ideas and issues to explore in this situation so first let's take a look at the surface of the problem and then we will explore some possible underlying causes and solutions.
It sounds like what is happening is your one CPU-intensive process is using all the available resources and it is slowing down everything else, including the desktop environment. When the desktop is starved for resources, applications are not processing input quickly enough to appear "alive". When this happens, the system thinks the program might have crashed and offers to get rid of it. In this case, the applications are not actually crashing, they are just too resource hungry to respond.
Part of the issue here is that Linux tends to favour overall work performance over responsiveness. In other words, Linux will try to accomplish as many things as possible in a given amount of time, rather than making dealing with new input and generating a response its priority. This is ideal for servers and number crunching workstations, but not so great for people using the desktop under heavy load. There are ways to change the way Linux schedules tasks to try to get a more responsive user interface, but it is a technical path to walk and tends to involve re-compiling the kernel, and I think there are probably easier ways to address this situation.
Without the specifications of the computer and information on the processes (and constraints) the system is running under, the best course of action is hard to predict. However, I do have a handful of suggestions for situations like this that will hopefully help.
First, you mentioned the system is running Ubuntu, which suggests either the GNOME Shell or Unity desktop is being used. Both of these desktops use 3-D effects which require support from the video card to draw smoothly. Having a video driver that does not perform well puts more work on the CPU to make up the difference and can bring even modern machines to their knees. This typically happens if your machine is running an AMD or NVIDIA card. Almost all the reports I encounter from people saying Ubuntu runs too slowly or their desktop is not responsive can be traced back to a driver issue. Run the Software & Updates application and click on the Additional Drivers tab. This will show alternative drivers which may work better with your video card.
Second, it sounds like this background task is not being polite and gobbling up all the CPU resources it can find. This is going to slow down any system and is not ideal for a desktop machine. Ideally it would be nice to run such a heavy process on its own, dedicated machine, but if that is not possible, we can force the process to act in a more polite manner.
There are tools, called nice, renice and ionice, which will allow a program to run at full speed, but force it to stay out of the way when another program wants to work. This is done by lowering the heavy process's priority. When nothing else is happening on the system, the process can work as hard as it wants, but its reduced priority means other programs (like desktop applications) can interrupt its work.
We have talked about how to adjust the priority of programs previously in an earlier Tips and Tricks article.
A third possibility is the big background process is not only consuming a lot of CPU, it is also consuming memory. When too much memory is used up, the operating system dumps some memory out to swap space, which then needs to be read back when a program wants to use it. You can run the free command to check memory consumption.
If the computer's memory is full and it is starting to use swap space to make room for the heavy process, then there are only so many things you can do. You can run fewer applications and services, or add more RAM to the system.
Finally, so far as I know, there is no way to disable the pop-up which says a task has stopped responding. At least not without editing and re-compiling the window manager. However, you could try switching to a lighter desktop. Assuming you are running either Unity or GNOME on Ubuntu, these are relatively heavy desktops. Since you are running a CPU-heavy process, I think it makes sense to trim as much of the software as possible on this system. Installing a lighter desktop, such as Xfce or LXDE, will free up more CPU and memory for the heavier program.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
Funtoo Linux 1.3
Daniel Robbins has announced the release of Funtoo Linux 1.3. Funtoo, a variant of Gentoo Linux, is an distribution that builds packages automatically from the source code. It was launched in 2009, shortly after Robbins left Gentoo Linux, a project he had founded in 2000. Version 1.3 brings a deprecation of "multilib" support, among other changes: "The ability for 64-bit versions of Funtoo Linux to run legacy 32-bit applications has been deprecated, so that Funtoo Linux for 64-bit CPUs is now 64-bit only, what we used to offer as a separate "pure64" build. This was done because 32-bit support was originally created as a stop-gap measure 15 years ago to allow for a seamless transition to 64-bit computing, and we believe the time has come to shed this ongoing maintenance burden and focus efforts that have historically been spent on 32-bit compatibility in other areas." Read the release announcement and release notes for more information. The Funtoo project does not provide bootable live or installation ISO images; users are instead directed towards the Gentoo-based SystemRescueCd to initiate any new installation. Optimised builds (or "stages") are available for various AMD and Intel processors, as well as the ARM and ARM64 architectures and Raspberry Pi and ODROID single-board computers - visit the project's "Subarches" page for a complete list.
Qubes OS 4.0.1
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki has announced the release of Qubes OS 4.0.1, an updated version of the project's security-focused Linux distribution which allows users to "compartmentalise" computing tasks into isolated compartments called qubes. This new release is mostly a bug-fix and security update and is recommended for all new Qubes installations: "We are pleased to announce the release of Qubes 4.0.1. This is the first stable point release of Qubes 4.0. It includes many updates over the initial 4.0 release, in particular: all 4.0 dom0 updates to date, including a lot of bug fixes and improvements for GUI tools; Fedora 29 TemplateVM; Debian 9 TemplateVM; Whonix 14 Gateway and Workstation TemplateVMs; Linux kernel 4.14. If you're currently using an up-to-date Qubes 4.0 installation (including updated Fedora 29, Debian 9, and Whonix 14 templates), then your system is already equivalent to a Qubes 4.0.1 installation. No action is needed. Similarly, if you're currently using a Qubes 4.0.1 release candidate and you've followed the standard procedure for keeping it up-to-date, then your system is equivalent to a 4.0.1 stable installation." Read the rest of the release announcement for additional information.
Clonezilla Live 2.6.0-37
Steven Shiau has announced the release of Clonezilla Live 2.6.0-37. Clonezilla Live provides tools for backing up, restoring and copying disk images and disk partitions either locally or across the network. The project's latest version includes several updates and fixes. "The underlying GNU/Linux operating system was upgraded. This release is based on the Debian 'Sid' repository as of 2019-01-08). Linux kernel has been updated to 4.19.13; Partclone to 0.3.12; ldmtool and haveged packages have been added; cURL has been added; NetworkManager has been added so that users can use 'nmtui' to configure network if necessary, especially for WiFi; making unknown fs as 'dd' and the image name for partition like sda3.dd-img.aa is now legacy - it has been replaced by sda3.dd-ptcl-img.lzma.aa; rewrite the same mechanism in ocs-onthefly; in addition to massive-deployment mode, the interactive-client mode was added so that lite server can provide the ability to enter interactive mode of Clonezilla Live in client; let live-build 20180618 handle uEFI boot, so ocs-put-signed-grub2-efi-bldr and ocs-gen-grub2-efi-bldr are deprecated." Further details can be found in the release announcement.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 1,197
- Total data uploaded: 23.3TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll |
Tools to keep processes in line
Sometimes processes use more resources than they should, interferring with the smooth operation of the rest of the system. When this happens there are several tools a system administrator can use to prevent these runaway processes from having a negative impact. We would like to know which process taming tools our readers use.
You can see the results of our previous poll on running distributions for a long time in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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| DistroWatch.com News |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 21 January 2019. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
- Jesse Smith (feedback, questions and suggestions: distribution reviews/submissions, questions and answers, tips and tricks)
- Ladislav Bodnar (feedback, questions, donations, comments)
- Bruce Patterson (podcast)
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Processes and System Down - systemd. (by Modus Operandi on 2019-01-14 00:30:42 GMT from United States)
"Sometimes processes use more resources than they should, interferring with the smooth operation of the rest of the system. "
- They (processes!?!) always do, as usual.
As we already know by now,
systemd means system DOWN as three more serious vulnerabilities found.
- CVE-2018-16864 and CVE-2018-16865, two memory corruptions
(attacker-controlled alloca()s);
- CVE-2018-16866, an information leak (an out-of-bounds read).
I am too nice to keep at least one of my finger always on power-off button.
I never take computing too seriously.
2 • Processes and System Down (by mmphosis on 2019-01-14 01:44:54 GMT from Canada)
Tools to keep processes in line -- I choose Other: "Ideally it would be nice to run such a heavy process on its own, dedicated machine" This what I do.
I am also finding Ubuntu less and less desirable as there are a lot of things installed and running that I do not want installed and running. I am looking at you systemd. There are some cron jobs that I have removed because I don't need them to run, but I shouldn't have to do this. I do like Void Linux, some of the other rolling release Linuxes, and leaner distributions -- as long as they work. I've also been considering Linux From Scratch but that is a lot of work with the advantage of knowing what you've built and installed.
Ubuntu crashed today, reboot, unknown what caused the problem -- makes me think about Void Linux again. On the other hand, there are lots of applications in Ubuntu that work seemlessly with little to no configurating. Configurating is annoying, I shouldn't have to do this.
3 • Dealing with Run-away Processes (by Bruce Fowler on 2019-01-14 03:07:11 GMT from United States)
I run "conky" in a bar at the bottom of my screen. If resource consumption is getting excessive, I use "top" to find the offending process and "kill" to stop it. If the desktop is locked up, then I try to open a text terminal "CTL-ALT F2" and go from there. The power switch is a last resort. This situation does not occur very often in normal desktop use, Linux is much more dependable than certain other commercial OS's.
4 • Chnchi (by linuxista on 2019-01-14 03:13:58 GMT from United States)
>I have been told the Reborn team is working on their own installer to replace Cnchi.
Great idea. Antergos' installer has failed me every time I've tried it.
5 • Processes (by Trihexagonal on 2019-01-14 03:59:52 GMT from United States)
I keep a terminal open with top running at all times on my BSD boxen so I can keep an eye on processes.
6 • Freezings and slugginess (by Alburgheiro on 2019-01-14 05:25:51 GMT from Russia)
It is hard to tell what is the cause of an unresponsive desktop without having more information.
In my own experience:
- If the desktop becomes completely unresponsive needing a hard reboot, the most likely cause is the graphics card drivers or a hardware issue. You can try different driver versions and also check if the card is overheating. Disabling all the desktop effects and/or switching to a lighter desktop environment is also worth trying. If a notebook, it may be a problem with the fan or with the thermal paste.
- If the desktop becomes sluggish but not entirely unresponsive (and you are not running calculations on your GPU) it is often a problem of the system switching to swap memory (namely if it resides on a spinning drive). You may want to check whether this is the case and tune the swappiness parameter. If that is not enough, you may need to consider upgrading your RAM.
- In my experience, it is less usual that the cause is a CPU-hungry application, unless if your resources are very limited or the code is not very good. In that case, you may want to tune the allocated resources or niceness, as explained, or just switch to another software.
- Finally, you should be aware of the fact that certain Trojans and websites may be using your CPU/GPU to mine cryptocurrency or the like.
7 • Tools:other (by Saladin on 2019-01-14 08:04:22 GMT from United Kingdom)
Jesse's "Finally..." - another DT (Xfce) has always worked for me and meets the K.I.S.S. principle.
8 • Gaming on Linux (by Muvori on 2019-01-14 09:23:27 GMT from Netherlands)
Over 50% of popular Steam games are natively supported, but due to the recent Steam Play update, which included Proton (Wine), you can run almost all games on Linux! Way more than you can play on MacOS at least.
9 • Desktop freezing question (by Dxvid on 2019-01-14 09:29:12 GMT from Sweden)
Sometimes my desktop freezes (KDE on X with official Nvidia drivers), and I often find it has to do with a background process related to HDD/SSD background maintenance using up 100% of 1 or 2 of the 8 vCPU cores, so 50% or 100% of one real CPU core. Htop/top/KSysGuard will report CPU-usage for a process of around 12,5% to 25% and at this time the desktop can get frozen but not always. Freezing can vary from 0,5 seconds to around 10-15 seconds and can happen maybe once or twice per month per computer. Swap is never used, and there's always plenty of available RAM memory.
Does anyone know if this is because the desktop is waiting for the SSD/HDD to become available or if Linux and/or X and/or KDE isn't smart enough to use the other CPU cores that are available?
My guess is that X or KDE is waiting in a queue to be able to access the SSD/HDD and that the cron jobs doing various types of disk maintenance have higher priority, but how can I check for sure what's really causing the problem? Is there a log file or other file I can check afterwards to find what caused the problem? I'm not talking about logging process CPU or I/O usage, but instead logging of errors/warnings and/or wait time and/or cause of the freezing.
There's no difference if the system disk is a SSD or HDD (storage disks are always HDD), it can happen on any machine but not regularly. Most likely it happens if a problem is found and fixed in the background on one of the disks, but that's just my guess.
If a machine doesn't have a desktop environment, it's much more difficult to notice a freeze but it might happen even on servers. Sometimes whether it's Ubuntu or OpenSUSE a server's SSH will become unresponsive for a few seconds, and maybe it has the same root cause, but it's not as easy to know as there can be internet related problems causing SSH to become unresponsive, or virtualization problems. I've never experienced freezing or unresponsiveness on SLES whether using Gnome with X or SSH, but I don't know if it's because of luck or less load or less disk problems or "better" distro.
10 • 2 mmphosis - Processes and System Down (by EarlyBird on 2019-01-14 11:08:42 GMT from Canada)
2 mmphosis - Re: "I've also been considering Linux From Scratch but that is a lot of work with the advantage of knowing what you've built and installed"
You might want to look at the Nutyx distro. It is based on LFS and BLFS. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but from description, looks like a good starting point that might meet your criteria.
11 • Cnchi (by Eureka on 2019-01-14 11:18:19 GMT from Switzerland)
Cnchi is the worst installer I had to use. It always failed to install Antergos on real hardware and installed once in VM. For this reason I gave up trying Antergos and I will not try Reborn OS. I really do not understand those distro developers who are putting the end user in front of a bad installer. It is just so unrespectful. This gives a very bad, unprofessional image of Linux.
12 • @1,2,3,5,6,7,9 Desktop (or computer) freezing. (by Greg Zeng on 2019-01-14 11:22:09 GMT from United Kingdom)
Glad to see reality now, with its real life troubles. Any computer operating system is NOT always fun, if it slows or stops itself. More operating systems need real-time monitoring for abusive processes. HTOP is not supplied with many standard systems. If it is supplied, the Linux operating system cannot easily be configured for user access.
Similarly my preferred real time monitor is GKRELLM. Seems that few if any Linux user know how to configure this essential program. The correct "GUI" needed to KILL bad run-away processes is HTOP. Both Linux applications suffer from poor understanding of the necessity & importance. Only in the PCLOS operating system is GKRELLM given some more attention than the default settings. Even in PCLOS however, GKRELLM is not properly installed, by default. Linux has yet to create the equivalent to Windows' "Process Lasso", which combines real-time monitor, automatic process moderation and easy killing-taming of runaway processes.
Hopefully the newest Linux kernels released by "The Linux Foundation" better handle multi-process
CPU's. Reports (Twitter) on server performance with the 4.20 kernel appear quicker operations, & less resource hogging. The promised Linux Kernel 5.0, due in several weeks, should hopefully handle true multi-process hardware soon.
13 • Why would you have not seen this subject 5 years ago?... (by R. Cain on 2019-01-14 12:21:02 GMT from United States)
The answer is contained in one word:
'systemd'.
14 • conjecture (by Trihexagonal on 2019-01-14 13:21:39 GMT from United States)
@12 I have used Gkrellm since 2002 and it is pictured in every one of my screenshots. I have a page of them on my site and many in the FreeBSD forums.
I usually keep two terminals open at all times. One to work from and use if I need to become root and another terminal open to work from my use account if I'm root in the first.
I keep the second running top at all other times to keep an eye on processes since it's already open.
15 • Reborn OS (by Pat Menendez on 2019-01-14 02:53:16 GMT from Canada)
I'm sorry to hear you had trouble. I've run Reborn OS for a year. XFCE, LXQT, and Plasma. Other than the bugs and windoze inspiration (bugs, missing pieces) inherent in Plasma this is the fastest, most stable, most responsive distro I have ever run. 8th gen i5 8600K @ 4.7 GHz, Nvidia, 8th gen i3 8350K @ 4.4 GHz, Nvidia, 2nd gen i5 2550K @ 4.4 GHz. Radeon. A year ago when I built the two 8th gen systems reborn OS ran by far the best and most stable of any distro I tried. Most wouldn't even boot the DVD or wouldn't install. They just couldn't handle all 8th gen hardware. The original LXQT installation on the i3 is still working 100%. My cousin is really impressed and loves Reborn OS I installed on his i3. The 8th gen i5 started LXQT and a couple months ago I "upgraded" to Plasma. LXQT is more stable and reliable than Plasma! I prefer the look of QT but will probably go back to LXQT. My years old unsupported KDE-4 is still more reliable and does what I want to do more and better than Plasma.
16 • Tools (by Argent on 2019-01-14 20:25:42 GMT from United States)
Many have commented on systemd as the culprit for man issues. Not a boogie man person but there are open ports on a systemd machine in idle while not so in non-systemd machine. Have tested many distributions both systemd and systemd-free and yes the CPU behaves strangely. Like the CPU fans running on high with no applications open and there are open ports according to a conky I use for testing or to monitor processes.
Systemd distributions will be very much like Windows in the next couple of years.
17 • Tools (by R. Cain on 2019-01-14 21:27:04 GMT from United States)
@16
"Ubuntu refuses to reboot - what now?”
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-no-reboot.html
"... this is another instance that shows the limited usefulness of the systemd framework..."
"...a little more understanding into the chaos that is the Linux boot sequence post init [i.e., since sysvinit was abandoned in favor of 'systemd']...
"Systemd – Progress Through Complexity"
http://www.ocsmag.com/2016/10/19/systemd-progress-through-complexity/
"...Except we’re going to talk about something that is clearly not progress. Systemd..."
"...System V and init are probably not ready to be [relegated] to history, especially not when Systemd is the current proposed alternative. It simply does not have what it takes to be the superior functional and evolutionary replacement..."
18 • Tools (by Rooster12 on 2019-01-14 22:05:35 GMT from United States)
@ 16 Argent: Systemd distributon are about 20% larger than a non-systemd distribution, there could be embedded applications using those ports. No expert but find the phenomena a bit strange because have pondered in the past what the issues were causing me to replace perfectly good PC components like HHD, CPU and video card driving to eliminate the issues.
A systemd-free distribution works without much of the strangeness, especially open ports at idle as you mentioned.
19 • non-systemd distros (by Jordan on 2019-01-14 23:23:59 GMT from United States)
Made me look...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_distributions_without_systemd
20 • Tools to keep processes in line (by John on 2019-01-15 01:34:49 GMT from Canada)
I use nice/renice, but what I found is nice does not 'slow things down' as I would like. So to prevent CPU temperature spiking I will kick of a script that does something like this:
kill -STOP pid
sleep "so many seconds"
kill -CONT pid
sleep "so many seconds"
inside a loop as long as the pid is active. I do this when time is not an issue, plus it will keep the CPU from running hot 100% of the time.
I have something like this running right now and it has been running for a while.
21 • @16-Tools; Systemd distributions will be very much like Windows... (by R. Cain on 2019-01-15 01:52:37 GMT from United States)
"Upgraded Ubuntu 18.04 suddenly boots slowly? Read this."--
"...After the successful upgrade, I noticed a super-slow boot on the Lenovo system...The time to reach the desktop went from an okay 60-seconds to a horrendous 4-minute mark..."
"...Systemd is not a friendly thing - in fact, it makes system troubleshooting much more difficult than it should be, because it's a tool designed by someone who doesn't really do system troubleshooting....Like weapons designed by bureaucrats..."
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-beaver-slow-boot.html
"Modern software development is cancer"--
"...a very much similar platter of emotions erupted in my being while fiddling with systemd and trying to solve problems that were created by, guess, systemd, a complicated pile of code with no other purpose other than to be a complicated pile of code..."
"...Then, suddenly, we have this new binary diarrhea...for the past five years, this unstable, half-baked, undebuggable nonsense is the backbone of most Linux distros...has also affected the stability of the user space, the very thing it should never have touched...all problems with the quality of the Linux desktop nicely coincide with the introduction of systemd...for no good reason than trying to reach the level of stability, maturity and functionality that we had half a decade ago. Someone landed themselves a lot of monthly pay checks by writing complex code to solve a problem that did not exist..."
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/software-development-cancer.html
22 • @18 :Tools (by R. Cain on 2019-01-15 02:30:35 GMT from United States)
"...Systemd distributon[s] are about __20% larger__ than a non-systemd distribution..."
Mint Linux 17.3, DistroWatch's 'at-one-time' #1 distribution, and rated the very best of ALL Linux distributions--of any type--going into 2017, was a non-'systemd' distribution, with a download size of 1400 MB. It is STILL considered to be one of the very best of all Mint distributions.
Mint Linux 18.3, Mint's next new and improved most stable 'systemd' version was an 1800 MB download; an increase of over 28% over version 17.3,'was riddled with bugs--some of which have not been addressed to this day--and which started Mint's long, slow slide out of DistroWatch's 1st place which continues to this day.
@ 18 --This is the only distribution on which I have data, but this certainly bears out your "...20% larger..." statement.
23 • Extreme slowness after an upgrade (by RJA on 2019-01-15 02:34:59 GMT from United States)
@21, the hard drive, especially if it's a Seagate Momentus, is a suspect. HDD failure can have similar symptoms!
If it's a laptop, the HDD is very much a suspect. Especially appearing to craw at PIO speeds for no good reason.
24 • persistent processes (by greenpossum on 2019-01-15 03:31:57 GMT from Australia)
How can I get rid of whinges about systemd on DW? SIGBORED doesn't seem to work. ;) ;)
25 • systemd (by edcoolio on 2019-01-15 05:00:46 GMT from United States)
@24, Spot on. I have been wondering the same thing. DW anti-systemd spam defender??
======================
As for tools to keep processes in line, I found the article helpful. Immediately after a distro installation, I disable all background applications/services/ports/etc on a distro which are not needed for my purposes. Then, it is just a matter of hunting down rogue processes using htop.
======================
I believe the QA this week unintentionally raises a good point. I am of the opinion that memory use is a good starting-point of how light a distribution can be in its default state. However, memory use alone is not always an accurate indicator of responsiveness in comparison to other distros.
To be specific, a distro may have very light RAM usage in default configuration while simultaneously containing a process that hogs CPU/GPU cycles. A comparison chart would be most useful.
I would really like to see a review chart that quantifies CPU/GPU usage of distros that are 64 bit "heavy" and "light" categories. Additionally, a 32 bit "light" category should also be included. These comparisons can be made while idle and also while running a modern browser in both a weak internal and dedicated graphics environment.
Sounds like a ton of work, but man, it would be cool.
Well written QA, review, and poll.
26 • whinging (by Gary W on 2019-01-15 06:11:15 GMT from Australia)
@24 The exit is nearby, under your keyboard.
Whinges about systemd are on-topic (IMHO). Meta-whinges are not.
27 • @26 (by greenpossum on 2019-01-15 07:07:49 GMT from Australia)
It's boring to those of us who have learnt to work well with both init systems, both for work and for personal use. Always easier to blame the software than a lack of willingness to learn. But there are lots of distros for the SysVinit crowd so what's the problem?
28 • @25, Here's a start (by Angel on 2019-01-15 08:14:40 GMT from Philippines)
All running on a Gigabyte Mini desktop, i5-7200U, 240 GB SSD, 8GB RAM.
KDE neon
Idle: cpu 3%, Proc 194, Mem 476MB. With Firefox: cpu 5%, Proc 198, Mem 1GB
MX17
Idle: cpu 2%, Proc: 182, Mem: 406MB. With Firefox: cpu 5%, Proc 187, Mem 1.2
Xubuntu 18.04
Idle: cpu 3%, Proc 142, Mem 455. With Firefox: cpu 5% Proc 145, Mem 1.05GB
As you can see, little difference between them.
29 • What might be eating memory in Gnome shell then? (by Akoy on 2019-01-15 11:28:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
KDE, XFCE idles at quite low memory, while Gnome eats a lot, nearly 1GB. What might be eating that memory at idle in Gnome?
30 • systemd (by Jordan on 2019-01-15 17:20:48 GMT from United States)
The systemd discussion is back. It's been a while.
I can't be a voice of reason in this.. I see compelling notions and real info about systemd and non-systemd distros. All I can offer is that link I posted above as to non-systemd distros out there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_distributions_without_systemd
Most of you very savvy people in this discussion have them memorized, I'm sure.
Linux, as always, is about choices. We can hash out how we feel about this or that aspect of linux distros, but, in the end, we can all do something that Windows people cannot do: we can make choices that fall into place with our feelings about those linux differences.
31 • @27: (by dragonmouth on 2019-01-15 23:03:39 GMT from United States)
Bully for you for having learned how to work well with systemd! Thousands of other Linux users have learned also and that is precisely why they are able to point out the faults and problems of systemd. Even though tens of millions of users have learned to "work well" with the most widely used O/S in the world does not change the fact that Windows has severe problems and it is their that familiarity that allows the users to recognize that fact.
You need to get your head out of the sand and realize that systemd is not some Sacred Cow that cannot be criticized and/or that it is The Greatest Thing Since Sliced Bread.
32 • @31 (by mandog on 2019-01-16 03:02:37 GMT from Peru)
I really think its people with mind sets like you that need to get their heads out the sand,
systemd is fine boots faster than sysV 30secs systemd 15secs for gnome3.gnome also starts at 380-400 mb on a real linux system that embraced systemd not a half cocked Debian/Ubuntu effort.
Now if you really want to talk inits, simplicity, and boot speed, then you need to talk runit or S6. But i suppose that is beyond the realms of the DW expert commentators.
33 • @32 Mandog re inits (by Newby on 2019-01-16 03:25:28 GMT from Canada)
Actually, would REALLY appreciate it if you could expound upon runit and S6. Have seen references to runit being used with some distros (don't recall which; maybe some embedded apps?); not at all familiar with S6.
Could you, or perhaps anyone else here, discuss the relative merits, differences, and setup of runit and S6 vs sysvint? Links to examples/tutorials would be useful as well.
(Not interested at all in systemd, because it completely breaks philosophy of being an editable text file, and tries to take on more than just be a simple init).
34 • In *my* day (by CS on 2019-01-16 04:19:28 GMT from United States)
In *my* day we didn't have any of this fancy systemd crap! We kept all our init logic in /etc/rc and we loved it! You snot nosed little punks can't deal with a little spaghetti code? Go get yourself a real computer! One that runs at 40 MHz with 8 MB of RAM! Now that's a real system. None of this complex crap they're churning out these days.
And don't even get me started on this software bloat! 1.8 GB? Christ sake! 1.8 GB of SSD costs almost $0.16! In my day you could buy a 3 bedroom house for less! What are you whippersnappers doing with all that crap anyhows???
35 • @32 - boot times (by Hoos on 2019-01-16 07:14:31 GMT from Singapore)
Surely the systemd debate is more than about boot times. But I won't go down that road.
Manjaro XFCE (systemd) and MX (sysV, also XFCE) both have similar bootup times on my machine, around 15 secs on different partitions of the same HDD. This is from grub menu to lightdm login screen.
In fact, I recall timing and posting in DWW at least a year ago that I thought the MX bootup was slightly faster, being around 10+ secs. But what's a few seconds? I don't hold it against either distro.
On a separate SSD install (same computer), MX's bootup time is 5 secs.
36 • Systemd (by Alburgheiro on 2019-01-16 07:40:58 GMT from Russia)
Systemd is not just an init system. It is a huge user-space wrapper around the kernel that aims at controlling most, if not all, administrative functions of your operating system. A huge binary blob growing bigger and bigger by the hour, it will soon be the most important piece of software within a Linux distro, right after the kernel. The final goal may be even to replace the Linux kernel with a Systemd fork.
So, if there are bugs, performance or security issues within systemd, it is a very serious matter that needs to be discussed. Here or elsewhere.
37 • @36 SystemD (by Angel on 2019-01-16 10:28:32 GMT from Philippines)
I'm sure a discussion on the pluses and minuses of systemD is warranted and could be interesting, a constructive discussion, that is. It is not, however, constructive to spout negative generalities, most of which were read somewhere and accepted as credo ("It's a cancer." "It's this or that evil thing.") with no specifics of the poster's own experience and knowledge. No disagreement is to be brooked. Read your own post. It's the same generalization I've read many times, in almost the same exact words, here and elsewhere. There are some posters on this forum whose views on the subject would merit attention and respect: anticapitalista (antiX, MX) for one, Mandog, et al. But those leading the charge seem to be the shouters of emptiness.
38 • @31 SystemD, (by Rupert A. on 2019-01-16 11:56:10 GMT from Canada)
Hah! "Head-in-the-Sand versus Chicken Little" might make a good X-Men epic, or maybe a pro-wrestling match, but it helps no one here with inits now, does it?
39 • @# 30 and # 38 systemD - system Dislike it, (by Donnie Disklikedit on 2019-01-16 19:27:10 GMT from Canada)
@ # 30
link to non-systemd is memorized by heart now.
@ # 38
At least I am the only one here who like systemd, even if system(s) dislikes it (i mean systemd). I like it because I always install systemd distros on the system(s) from people which I really do not like as a maintenance guy.
In this way, systemd performs the great, at least for me even though system itself does not like it and starts puking.
Number of Comments: 39
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Fusion Linux was a Fedora remix that adds all the best software that was available for Linux (free, non-free and even some non-open source firmware and applications for better user experience). It was an installable live DVD image that includes multimedia functionality out of the box, with added desktop tweaks for better usability, and additional software. Fusion Linux was 100% compatible with Fedora, including packages from Fedora and RPM Fusion software repositories.
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