 DistroWatch Weekly |
| DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 836, 14 October 2019 |
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Welcome to this year's 41st issue of DistroWatch Weekly!
Arch Linux is probably one of the world's most popular rolling release distributions and it is also one of the more common base projects developers use to create new distributions. This week we begin with a look at Archman GNU/Linux, a Arch-based project featuring the Xfce desktop. Joshua Allen Holm test drives Archman and reports on how this rolling release distribution performs in our Feature Story. In our News section we talk about the Haiku project working toward better ARM processor support as well as UBports receiving updates to the mobile operating system's installer and PinePhone support. We also share news from the openSUSE team about what features we can expect when openSUSE 15.2 becomes available next year, and report on Project Trident planning a migration to a new base operating system. We are also pleased to wish Unix a happy 50th birthday. Then, in our Questions and Answers column we talk about working with server distributions which offer an easy, graphical approach to installing. We also explore ways of easing into using server distributions for new administrators. We follow this up in our Opinion Poll, asking if your server runs a graphical interface. There are lots of web-based and desktop-based server tools and we would like to hear if you use these. Let us know about your favourite server configuration tools in the comments. Plus we are pleased to share the releases of the past week and list the torrents we are seeding. We wish you all a wonderful week and happy reading!
Content:
- Review: Archman GNU/Linux Xfce 2019-09
- News: Haiku improves ARM compatibility, UBports team improving their installer and PinePhone support, openSUSE upgrading Plasma for 15.2 release, Trident plans migration to new base, Unix turns 50 years old
- Questions and answers: Finding a home server distro that is easy to set up
- Torrent corner: ArcoLinux, AUSTRUMI, Clonezilla, EasyOS, IPFire, NethServer, NixOS, Obarun, SmartOS, SparkyLinux
- Upcoming releases: Ubuntu 19.10, FreeBSD 12.1-RC2
- Opinion poll: Does your server run a graphical interface?
- Reader comments
Listen to the Podcast edition of this week's DistroWatch Weekly in OGG (15MB) and MP3 (11MB) formats.
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| Feature Story (by Joshua Allen Holm) |
Archman GNU/Linux Xfce 2019-09
Archman is an Arch Linux-based distribution developed in Turkey. The project's website is available in both Turkish and English, which makes the distribution approachable to non-Turkish audiences. Archman has various releases with different desktop environments and release dates. In this review, I will be reviewing Archman's Xfce 2019-09 release, which is codenamed Lake With Fish.
To begin, I downloaded the 1.6GB ISO and copied it to a flash drive. I rebooted my computer, turned off Secure Boot, and started Archman from the flash drive. The boot process was quick, but I ended up at a graphical login screen instead of a working desktop environment. I pressed the Enter key and I logged in without needing a password.
The live desktop looked very nice. It is an interesting blend of classic and modern. The live desktop has icons for the user's home folder and Trash. There is also a shortcut for Hexchat and the Calamares Archman Installer. The panel at the bottom of the screen holds the application menu, shortcuts for showing the desktop/quickly minimizing all running applications, Firefox, the user's home folder, sections for the currently running applications, switching desktops, a clock, Bluetooth and wireless controls, a battery meter, update notifications, volume control, and a log out/reboot/shutdown shortcut. The panel is 70% the width of the screen and set to automatically hide.
I looked around the live desktop for a little while. I tested to make sure that everything was working okay with my hardware, and once I was certain that all my hardware worked, I moved on to installing Archman.
Installing Archman
Archman uses the Calamares installer. This provided a fairly typical installation experience. The installer walks the user through all the standard installation steps: selecting language/keyboard layout, setting location/timezone information, partitioning the hard drive, and setting up a user. Pretty standard stuff, but there were a few issues I ran into when I was installing. First, the installer required Internet access. It is nice enough to tell the user this up front, but it still was a pain, because the first time I tried to install Archman, I was somewhere without Internet access. I had to try again later. When I did get the chance to install Archman, I ran into an issue where the installer could not successfully use the option to erase and use my entire drive. It would fail no matter what I did. I ended up using the option to replace one partition, which had Ubuntu installed on it, and the installer used my existing EFI partition. This worked, but the use entire disk option had three choices for how large the swap partition should be, which ranged from none to large enough to support hibernate, but the replace partition option left me with no swap. I could have used the manual partition option, or spent more time figuring out why the option to use the entire disk was not working with my computer, but the option I picked worked well enough.
Archman GNU/Linux 2019-09 -- The Calamares installer
(full image size: 1.8MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Default Xfce desktop and applications
Archman Xfce 2019-09 comes with Xfce 4.14 with a customized layout. It also comes with Firefox 69, LibreOffice 6.2, GIMP 2.10, Inkscape 0.92, Quod Libet for listening to music, Ex Falso for editing tags in audio files, Parole for playing videos, Hexchat, various Xfce utilities and applications, and two games: GNOME Chess and Chromium B.S.U., which is an arcade-style, top-scrolling space shooter. The pre-installed selection of software is quite good, and the video player can play movies without having having to track down codecs, but for some odd reason, the chess game does not have a chess engine installed to allow the user to play against the computer.
Archman GNU/Linux 2019-09 -- The default Xfce desktop
(full image size: 2.5MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Xfce 4.14 introduced a large number of enhancements, many of which were small, but welcome improvements to various aspects of the Xfce desktop and standard applications. There are a lot of "under the hood" enhancements and the core components now use GTK3 instead of GTK2, but Xfce 4.14 is basically a very nice revision and upgrade of the Xfce 4.12 desktop environment. Xfce users will probably like the enchantments, but users of distributions that are still using Xfce 4.12 probably will not have reason enough to distro hop just to get the latest and greatest. However, because of Archman's customizations, users interesting in seeing what Xfce 4.14 has to offer might wish to look at a distribution that uses a more vanilla Xfce 4.14 to test out the new version for themselves.
While Xfce 4.14 is nice, I ran into several minor issues with Archman's settings. Some of these settings might be upstream defaults, some are not, but they really frustrated me when trying to use Archman. The biggest issue was the default touchpad settings. The touchpad was way too sensitive. I have never had any problem with any other distribution regardless of desktop environment, but the touchpad in Archman was constantly registering my palm as a touch when I was typing. I would find my cursor moved, text selected, and the like while just typing the way I usually do, which has never caused an issue on any other distribution I have tried. I enabled the "disable touchpad while typing" option in the settings, but the default time to disable the touch pad was too long and I had to go back and reduce the time from 2 seconds to 0.5 seconds. I also had trouble getting the touchpad to register tapping with two fingers as a right click, and I had to change the scrolling option to two-finger mode to help alleviate the issue with the touchpad detecting the side of my hand as a touch.
Archman GNU/Linux 2019-09 -- Bluetooth panel showing error
(full image size: 2.1MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
There were a few other issues that were fairly minor, but still annoying. The bottom panel has an icon for Bluetooth that opens a device manager. That device manager has the option to disable Bluetooth, but I could not use it because my account did not have permission to do so. A quick Google search provided a solution (add my user to the rfkill group), but something like this should have worked out of the box. Also, with the default software selection, LibreOffice could not spell check my documents; I had to install the hunspell-en_US package before spell check would work.
A couple of issues I had were very subjective nitpicks, but they bothered me enough that I had to change settings from their defaults. The terminal uses a teal text on a black background, which did not have enough contrast for me to comfortably use. Thankfully, there were several preset options available that were easier on the eyes. I also did not like the auto-hiding bottom panel. When it is hidden I had no clock, so I could not easily check to see what time it was, which is admittedly minor, but it bothered me. I also found that the hidden panel would get activated when I tried to access the various features at the bottom of some program's windows. For example, when I tried to use the bottom panel in LibreOffice Writer to change the page style by clicking on on "Default Style", I would active the panel instead. I could have tried to be more precise with my touchpad movements, but I ended up turning off auto-hide and tweaking a few other settings to make the panel more to my liking.
Installing additional software
Archman is basically Arch Linux with an extra repository added for the Archman specific packages, so there is a large selection of software available from Arch's Core, Extra, Community, and Multilib repositories. The default GUI application for installing and updating software is Pamac, which can sort packages by categories, groups, or repository, so it is pretty easy to find packages. In the Pamac settings panel there are options for enabling several advanced options like automatically removing unrequired dependencies, enabling downgrades, and enabling AUR support to get software from the community maintained AUR repository.
Archman GNU/Linux 2019-09 -- Pamac displaying Archman's repository
(full image size: 169kB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Command-line users have the option of using the Pamac utility to install, remove, and upgrade packages, or they can use the pacman command. Archman also comes with several aliases pre-configured to simplify some of the more common pacman commands. Trizen is the command-line utility for managing AUR packages and it is aliased to the 'aur' command.
Archman GNU/Linux 2019-09 -- Xfce's terminal displaying aliases
(full image size: 1.4MB, resolution: 1920x1080 pixels)
Final thoughts
Archman is a nice way to get started with Arch Linux. It provides a pre-configured desktop that, for the most part, works out of the box. There are a few headaches, but most of those are easily fixable and take less time than installing and configuring Arch Linux. That said, there are a few out of the box configuration items that should not have required fixing, especially the issue with enabling/disabling Bluetooth. Sure, the fix was very easy, but it should have worked right without the user having to do anything.
I have mixed feeling about Archman's specific customizations, but almost all the issues I have are subjective opinions. The desktop environment looks very nice and is easy to use, but there are some things that I just had to change. Turning off the auto-hide feature for the bottom panel and making it used 100% of the screen's width solved my problems with the panel showing up when I did not want it, but a slightly better auto-hiding that let me use the functions at the bottom of various applications would be ideal. I have yet to find trackpad settings that I really like, but that may be me just being too used to the defaults found in Fedora's and Ubuntu's GNOME desktops.
Overall, if you are interested in an Arch Linux-based distribution that will let you get started quickly with only a handful of tweaks and fixes, Archman is a great option. Every issue I had was quickly solved by looking through the Arch wiki or Arch forums, but it would have been nice if Archman had just a little more polish so users did not have to fix minor issues.
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Hardware used in this review
My physical test equipment for this review was an ASUS VivoBook E406MA laptop with the following specifications:
- Processor: Intel Pentium Silver N5000 CPU
- Storage: 64GB eMMC
- Memory: 4GB of RAM
- Networking: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9377 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter
- Display: Intel UHD Graphics 605
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Visitor supplied rating
FreedomBox has a visitor supplied average rating of: 8.7/10 from 3 review(s).
Have you used FreedomBox? You can leave your own review of the project on our ratings page.
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| Miscellaneous News (by Jesse Smith) |
Haiku improves ARM compatibility, UBports team improving their installer and PinePhone support, openSUSE upgrading Plasma for 15.2 release, Trident plans migration to new base, Unix turns 50 years old
The Haiku team has been working on improving many aspects of their lightweight operating system. Haiku's developers have been updating their documentation, improving driver support, and making disk scanning more resilient against errors and corrupted partitions. The team is also working toward ARM compatibility, both for 32-bit and 64-bit ARM processors. "Some initial work for ARM64 was completed by kallisti5. This includes setting up the Haikuports package declarations, writing the early boot files, and in general getting the buildsystem going. Jaroslaw Pelczar also contributed several further patches (some of these still undergoing review), providing the initial interrupt handling support, and various stubs to let things compile. kallisti5 did some work on 32-bit ARM as well, cleaning up some of the code to better match other platforms and preparing the reuse of EFI for ARM and ARM64 (as u-boot now implements an EFI interface, which would make things much simpler for our ARM boot process if we manage to use it)." Details on the work going into Haiku can be found in the project's monthly newsletter.
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The UBports team has published a blog post about work being done on their mobile operating system, its installer, and future platforms. One of the topics addressed is the progress being made running UBports on the PinePhone. The PinePhone is a low-cost device designed to work with multiple open source operating systems. "Marius showed off the PinePhone, running UT. It can also be seen on his Twitter account. Lima was used to build it. That performs amazingly well for an open driver project. The model shown was one of the 100 original developer phones. The antennae needs attention still. The next batch will still not ship with an OS but we expect to see PinePhones shipping with UT installed early next year, along with other OS options."
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The next release of openSUSE is not expected to happen until May of 2020, but the distribution's developers are already planning features for openSUSE 15.2. The team is planning upgrades to the Linux kernel, Qt libraries, Plasma desktop and Wayland support: "Next to a new version of the Linux kernel, it’s planned to ship with Qt 5.12 LTS, Plasma 5.18 (of course also LTS) and the latest KDE Frameworks and Applications, which we can get in early enough for proper testing to ensure the best user experience possible! This means that the 'Full Wayland' session that landed in Tumbleweed a few weeks ago will also be available in Leap 15.2 and support per-screen fractional scaling.". Further details can be found on the distribution's news page.
The openSUSE team has also sent out a reminder that openSUSE 15.0 will soon reach the end of its supported life: "This is the advance discontinuation notice for openSUSE Leap 15.0. On November 30th 2019 openSUSE Leap 15.0 will reach its end of support after 1.5 years of lifetime (it was released May 2018). openSUSE Leap 15.0 will receive no further maintenance or security updates after that date. It is recommended for openSUSE Leap users to upgrade to the current release, openSUSE Leap 15.1."
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The Project Trident team has published an update on the operating system's migration from being based on an experimental rolling branch to a more stable platform. The update mentions the old, experimental branch will be removed at the end of 2019. The post goes on to say the new, stable repository will also be removed in April of 2020. Which raises the question of what will replace the new stable branch? The developers have indicated Project Trident will migrate to another operating system, but have not stated which one: "For long-term stability, Project Trident is hard at work migrating to an alternate operating system as the basis for the project. The migration is planned to be complete in late 2019. A new version of Project Trident based on the different operating system is planned for release in early 2020. For a small preview, we're already experiencing faster boot times, daily app updates, newer hardware drivers, and Bluetooth support in the new version of Project Trident."
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Finally, we are pleased to celebrate the Unix operating system turning 50 years old. Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie famously created the original Unix operating system which was then used as the basis for the BSDs, Solaris, parts of macOS, and its design was used as a template for MINIX and GNU/Linux. FOSS Bytes has an article on some modern Unix enthusiasts having fun by cracking the passwords in a snapshot of the original Unix system. The hashes used on the original passwords is considered weak by modern standards and can typically be broken in a few hours or days. The passwords used give a little insight into the habits and interests of the original Unix team.
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These and other news stories can be found on our Headlines page.
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| Questions and Answers (by Jesse Smith) |
Finding a home server distro that is easy to set up
Serving-the-home asks: I have learned a lot over the years but it has been self-taught. I am not much of a typist and I still have trouble using the command line. This brings me to my question about home servers. Is there a home server that comes with a GUI installer? Also, can you set-up a home server and still allow individual computers to access the Internet separately? Any pointers or information would be greatly appreciated.
DistroWatch answers: First, before I answer your specific questions, I would like to mention while some distributions are referred to as server distros and some as desktop distros, most can do both, even at the same time. If you are setting up a home server for the first time, you may find it easiest to install network services on your existing desktop machine. Alternatively, you can install your usual desktop distribution on a separate home computer and use it as your server. This will give you the chance to ease into setting up network services while still enjoying the comfort of the desktop interface. Some distributions, such as Mageia and openSUSE, have powerful tools for configuring network services from the comfort of your desktop environment.
With that out of the way, it is true that running a server without a desktop is more efficient and, in some cases, more secure than when a desktop is installed. This is why professionals run servers without a graphical interface. However, for learning at home, I think you would benefit from installing a desktop distro first and practise setting up services like web hosting, file storage or e-mail on it. Once you get some practise then consider starting your next project without the desktop interface.
To answer your question as to whether there are server distros that have graphical installers, there are. The mainstream server distros usually do this. openSUSE, CentOS, Fedora, and Debian all provide graphical installers that can be used to set up a server without a desktop. Usually whether a desktop is configured or not is a matter of checking a box during the install process.
On most networks the individual computers can access the Internet independently of the server. You may have seen network diagrams or older text books which talk about routing traffic through a server. This allows the server to perform web filtering and firewall duty. However, these days the firewall and parental controls are usually built into your home's router. You won't need to run your network traffic through the server and each workstation and desktop can connect directly to the router and access the Internet independently.
I'm not sure what type of services you planned to set up, but you can usually find excellent guides in your distribution's documentation. Most of the major distributions have wikis that will guide you step-by-step through setting up services. You may especially want to look into installing openSUSE for your first server since its YaST control panel makes setting up some services a point-and-click experience.
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Additional answers can be found in our Questions and Answers archive.
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| Released Last Week |
SparkyLinux 5.9
SparkyLinux is a lightweight distribution based on Debian. The project's latest release is an update to the project's Stable 5.x branch. The new version, SparkyLinux 5.9, includes updates from Debian 10 "Buster", an updated LTS kernel, and a Hungarian translation for the Sparky tools. The release announcement has the details: "SparkyLinux 5.9 "Nibiru" is out. This is a quarterly update of live/install media of the stable line, which is based on Debian 10 "Buster". The base system has been upgraded from Debian stable repos as of October 4, 2019. It works on the Linux kernel 4.19.67 LTS. As usually, new ISO/IMG images provide small bug fixes and improvements as well. Sparky project page and Sparky forums got new skins; no big changes about the colors but they are much mobile devices friendly now. Nemomen finished translating Sparky tools to Hungarian (thanks a lot), but many of them still waiting for adding to packages."
NixOS 19.09
NixOS is an independently developed distribution that aims to improve the state of the art in system configuration management. In NixOS, the entire operating system, including the kernel, applications, system packages and configuration files, are built by the Nix package manager. The project has released version 19.09 of NixOS which provides approximately six months of support. "In addition to numerous new and upgraded packages, this release has the following highlights. End of support is planned for end of April 2020, handing over to 20.03. PHP now defaults to PHP 7.3, updated from 7.2. PHP 7.1 is no longer supported due to upstream not supporting this version for the entire lifecycle of the 19.09 release. The binfmt module is now easier to use. Additional systems can be added. The installer now uses a less privileged nixos user whereas before we logged in as root. To gain root privileges use sudo -i without a password. We've updated to Xfce 4.14. There are incompatibilities with the current Xfce module; it doesn't support thunarPlugins. The GNOME 3 desktop manager module sports an interface to enable/disable core services, applications and optional GNOME packages like games." Additional information can be found in the project's release notes.
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Development, unannounced and minor bug-fix releases
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| Torrent Corner |
Weekly Torrents
The table below provides a list of torrents DistroWatch is currently seeding. If you do not have a bittorrent client capable of handling the linked files, we suggest installing either the Transmission or KTorrent bittorrent clients.
Archives of our previously seeded torrents may be found in our Torrent Archive. We also maintain a Torrents RSS feed for people who wish to have open source torrents delivered to them. To share your own open source torrents of Linux and BSD projects, please visit our Upload Torrents page.
Torrent Corner statistics:
- Total torrents seeded: 1,649
- Total data uploaded: 28.5TB
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| Upcoming Releases and Announcements |
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Summary of expected upcoming releases
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| Opinion Poll (by Jesse Smith) |
Does your server run a graphical interface?
In this week's Questions and Answers column we discussed setting up a server distro, and options for running a server with a desktop environment. While running a server with a desktop is rare in professional settings, lots of people run servers with a desktop or web-based interface at home and in small office environment. This week we would like to know, if you run network services on one of your computers at home, does that computer have a desktop interface?
You can see the results of our previous poll on which Ubuntu edition to review in last week's edition. All previous poll results can be found in our poll archives.
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| Website News (by Jesse Smith) |
DistroWatch database summary
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This concludes this week's issue of DistroWatch Weekly. The next instalment will be published on Monday, 21 October 2019. Past articles and reviews can be found through our Article Search page. To contact the authors please send e-mail to:
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| Reader Comments • Jump to last comment |
1 • Project Trident (by Daniel on 2019-10-14 03:21:18 GMT from United States)
Hmm. TrueOS (formerly PC-BSD) will still be based on FreeBSD, and while you can easily install DEs and WMs on it (as you can on vanilla FreeBSD for that matter), desktop experience is no longer its focus (TrueOS-based, desktop-focused GhostBSD is also available). In a way, I view Project Trident as the spiritual successor of PC-BSD, as it was created by prior members of the TrueOS desktop team (i.e. it continues the focus on desktop experience, although Lumina is not a direction I cared for). I will be interested to see what form Project Trident takes (will the Trident reference still be relevant to its underlying base?), and if it will still have loose affiliation with iXsystems (e.g. sponsorship).
2 • Home Server Interface (by Simon Plaistowe on 2019-10-14 04:23:14 GMT from New Zealand)
At home my requirements are simple. I run IPFire (web-based interface), which connects directly to the ONT for internet access. Now I know some will say "don't run file-sharing services on your firewall ...but hey, it's only providing a bunch of multimedia files. So my IPFire has the Samba add-on installed and serves up multimedia to the entire household.
3 • Project Trident (by voidpin on 2019-10-14 05:10:46 GMT from Sweden)
@1, Judging from the git activity, looks like Void is the new base, https://github.com/project-trident/trident-installer/commits/master/src-sh/void-install-zfs.sh
4 • Good impression on Archman (by Niyas C on 2019-10-14 05:19:25 GMT from Singapore)
I had an overall positive impression on Archman when tried on live system. Especially the visual appeal. However, I find the issues pointed out in the review as points that need improvement.
5 • #3 (by xt-at on 2019-10-14 06:25:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
Indeed and with further confirmation at the Void forum.
6 • Whatever happened to Puppy? (by Ed Jason on 2019-10-14 06:33:07 GMT from United Kingdom)
Is Puppy Linux moving over to ARM as its next official release?
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=116841
7 • Home Server (by Marc on 2019-10-14 07:59:35 GMT from Australia)
My home server is proxmox for playing with VM's. I also installed plex , NFS and XFCE desktop on top. Also started playing with docker on it.
8 • GUI in SUSE and OpenSUSE (by Dxvid on 2019-10-14 10:01:57 GMT from Sweden)
In SUSE Linux Enterprise Server the default is to install a Gnome desktop with the bare minimum applications needed on a server.
In OpenSUSE the default sever is command line only, although the good configuration tools like Yast run with ASCII graphics using ncurses so there's not much difference except for usage of mouse in for example KDE or Gnome. In both distros you can select whatever you want to install one graphical environment, multiple graphical environments or no graphical environment. In OpenSUSE there's a choice between 8 graphical environments. You can also select or deselect individual packages in Yast during installation.
As SUSE is preconfigured to work in mixed Linux and Windows IT-environments, I think it can be good to have the graphical environment installed in case a Windows sysadmin one day need to change a setting, they might get lost if only bash is available. Hardcore Linux sysadmins use bash and bash-scripts more often than graphical environments though, and Yast running from command line is a very good setup tool.
9 • @ Joshua, @ Jesse Arch Linux installing (by OstroL on 2019-10-14 10:07:49 GMT from Poland)
Maybe, you should review Zen Installer (https://sourceforge.net/projects/revenge-installer/)? It is the fastest Arch Linux installer and cleaner to install than Manjaro or Archman or Arco Linux or any other "ready made" Arch clones. It appears to have taken ideas from Feliz which was created by an English woman in her late 60s, now retired.
10 • Serving-the-home asks: (by Larry on 2019-10-14 13:28:47 GMT from United States)
There are several *nix Server packages that will do what you want.
Three that I have played with are:
1. FreeNAS
2. NAS4Free now XigmaNAS @ https://www.xigmanas.com/
3. Superb Mini Server (SMS) 2016 release
Check them out.
Larry
11 • all those yet another installers (by nicu on 2019-10-14 13:45:56 GMT from Moldova, Republic of)
arch distros should stick to calamares, and dont seek zen or feliz or whatever new will come,
cause calamares is distro agnostic, and it works just fine on debian too,
I never understood why ubiquity or anaconda existed, even here people have not-invented-here syndrom.
12 • @11 On Arch Installers (by kaczor on 2019-10-14 14:06:32 GMT from United States)
Calamares could be a distro agnostic installer, but Zen Installer installs Arch the Arch way, only it is automated. All these Manjaro, Arco, Archman etc are just ready-made distros with their own assets and problems, whereas the Zen Installer installs Arch the Arch way, straight from the Arch repos. It is an automated script.
There are many such scripts out there, and all of them installs Arch the Arch way, straight from the repos. The Zen Installer is the best out of them. Even the installer created by the 69 year old (at that time) English woman Elizabeth still installs Arch quite well. She's now 75!
https://github.com/angeltoast/feliz2
13 • Calamares (by Klaus on 2019-10-14 14:13:27 GMT from United States)
@11 Well Calamares did not work "just fine" last time I have used it (on Debian Buster it installed all language packages for Firefrox and Libre Office!) On the other hand, every time I have used ubiquity it just worked fine and did the job very well; also anaconda did the job 3-4 times good; so yeah, I definitely think calamares is not the best installer.
14 • Arch installer (by Kim on 2019-10-14 14:28:52 GMT from United States)
@12 I still do not see what is the difference between Arch installed "the Arch way" and distros like Arco, Archman or Manjaro. Either way you have an Arch installation.
15 • zen & feliz2 installers (by vern on 2019-10-14 16:15:04 GMT from United States)
#9 There appears to be issues using Zen with UEFI.
#12 I don't see the relevance between Feliz2 and Zen. They appear to be two different projects. Not much work has gone into feliz in a while.
16 • Home server UI (by mikef90000 on 2019-10-14 18:02:46 GMT from United States)
My option is not listed - command line with GUI on demand. Just run 'startx' to use the GUI for some tasks. Still experimenting with which remote desktop server to use - good VNC examples are rare.
17 • Home server (by Erik on 2019-10-14 18:22:32 GMT from Canada)
I like using a web interface for configuring and maintaining a server. I'm not very comfortable with the command line (yet) and this makes it pretty easy to configure everything.
18 • Project Trident (by voidpin on 2019-10-14 18:56:53 GMT from Sweden)
Its official now, https://project-trident.org/post/os_migration/
Void it was!
19 • @15 Tell us the issues (by OstroL on 2019-10-14 19:14:40 GMT from Poland)
"There appears to be issues using Zen with UEFI."
OK, tell us about those "issues."
20 • Zen $esp issues (by vern on 2019-10-14 20:50:31 GMT from United States)
@19 If you had went to the link you posted and read the comments you would see the $esp issues.
21 • trident->void? (by nanome on 2019-10-14 21:02:05 GMT from United Kingdom)
@18: can anyone explain project trident brings to void linux that would warrent calling it anything other than void linux?
22 • #21 (by xt-at on 2019-10-14 22:44:42 GMT from United Kingdom)
Who is to say that the name will change? Who will be the lead developer(s)? Will iX Systems continue their sponsorship of Project Trident? ; or whatever it may become... So many questions
23 • @20 (by OstroL on 2019-10-15 06:38:31 GMT from Poland)
Try it, before comment. Try anything, before comment. Best not comment sometimes...
24 • @18 key migration reasons (by Daniel on 2019-10-15 09:35:52 GMT from Brazil)
Thanks @18 for pointing that post! The “Migration Bemefits” section lists 7 areas where it seems the FreeBSD base fell short, in the projects view. Does anyone share the same observations, from a FreeBSD workstation user perspective?
25 • Project Trident (by RoboNuggie on 2019-10-15 14:22:43 GMT from United Kingdom)
@24 Being based on FreeBSD/TrueOS doesn't seem to be a problem for GhostBSD or NomadBSD..... I think it;s that they didn't achieve the results that GhostBSD did and gave up. Oh well...
26 • Zen Installer vs. Anarchy Linux (by David on 2019-10-15 20:18:31 GMT from United States)
@12 & @14
The Zen installer includes proprietary repositories that require periodic updating and contribute to system bloat.
The Anarchy Linux installer draws from the default Arch repositories exclusively, and includes ZERO proprietary repositories, which serve to minimize bloatware, and offer a more expansive universe of user-customizable DE's, WM's, multiple driver, bootloader & kernel choices, etc.
https://www.anarchylinux.org/ - https://www.anarchylinux.org/features.html
All of the Arch-based distros such as Arco, Archman, Manjaro, AchLabs, etc. include proprietary repositories loaded with packages that a large percentage of users do not want and will never use, but will still be forced to spend time & system resources updating during any given regular Arch update cycle.
I've found the installer to be bulletproof across multiple CPU generation Intel & AMD hardware installations, though, as always, YMMV.
JMHO.
27 • What's with focus on installers? How often do you use? (by herb i. voere on 2019-10-16 05:44:16 GMT from United States)
There's much weired about installing "arch". Now are muliptple installer and it matters? Think I'm going to continue to avoid it.
I just want to fling in a DVD and have it go and then come up with everything I need. Like PCLinux. A toaster not an erector set or Lego, plaese.
28 • Arch way, erectors and toasters (by carney bored on 2019-10-16 10:53:51 GMT from United States)
Arch is not looking to sell you a toaster, or even an erector set. In any case, you would not go to an appliance store to buy a DIY kit, nor to a hobby store to buy a toaster. What is referred to as the Arch way is a set of principles which do not include extraneous installers be they simple, complex, or complete and polished distros.. It is open source, so anyone can do with what Arch provides as they see fit, but while it may be based on Arch, it is not Arch.
"Whereas many GNU/Linux distributions attempt to be more user-friendly, Arch Linux has always been, and shall always remain user-centric. The distribution is intended to fill the needs of those contributing to it, rather than trying to appeal to as many users as possible. It is targeted at the proficient GNU/Linux user, or anyone with a do-it-yourself attitude who is willing to read the documentation, and solve their own problems."
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux#Principles
In other words, go buy your toaster or erector set somewhere else.
29 • Home server (by Jim on 2019-10-16 11:08:51 GMT from United States)
I don't run a home servers, but if I ever do, it will have a GUI.
30 • @ 28 (by OstroL on 2019-10-16 11:19:39 GMT from Poland)
Would you buy the engine, seats, tires and the rest and build your car in your backyard? Maybe, you even build the engine yourself?
31 • @30 Build a Car (by Rev_Don on 2019-10-16 12:44:09 GMT from United States)
Yes, if you enjoy doing that. LOT'S of people do exactly that here in the USA. That's how cars went from barely being able to make it around the block to the reliable, high performance, and fuel efficient vehicles they are today. Try it, you might learn something.
32 • @30 the Arch way (by carney bored on 2019-10-16 13:57:27 GMT from United States)
First, a car and software are not comparable. You don't need specialized tools and machinery to put together a distro like Arch. All you need is a computer, some knowledge, and/or the ability and desire to learn. Still, people do build cars from kits, because they enjoy doing it.
Second, you just don't seem to get it: Arch is not trying to get you to use their distro. They don't care whether you do or not. If you want it already built in part or in whole, there are many places to do that. +
Read again: "It (Arch) is targeted at the proficient GNU/Linux user, or anyone with a do-it-yourself attitude who is willing to read the documentation, and solve their own problems."
That's not what you want? Then use whatever else you wish. No one is being forced, begged, required, or even asked to do anything.
33 • Building a car (by TebeOdnoy on 2019-10-16 13:57:32 GMT from United States)
@31 If you're objective is to show off your hobby, as in feed your ego with pride, all well. On the other hand, if you actually insist on driving that car without having to seriously waste precious time, getting all that know how, parts, tools, etc.; I mean, why bother when there's a car dealer right down the street?
34 • @33 Building a distro (by Angel on 2019-10-16 14:14:49 GMT from Philippines)
If there weren't people willing to roll up their sleeves, take the time, use their talents and make the effort to put together distros like Arch, there would be no Manjaros, Archmans, Arcolinuxes, et al. for you to get all pretty and built for you, now would there?
35 • @32 Arch (by OstroL on 2019-10-16 14:27:03 GMT from Poland)
"First, a car and software are not comparable. You don't need specialized tools and machinery to put together a distro like Arch. All you need is a computer, some knowledge, and/or the ability and desire to learn. Still, people do build cars from kits, because they enjoy doing it."
I have installed Arch that way few times, but it is a headache. It is much better to use a script to automate the installation. I don't know how to write a script, so I use scripts of those people, who can do that. They save me time, and time precious these days. While, I know what's being installed and why, I don't waste time. Someone else had wasted his time for me, for which I am thankful. Most important fact is that Arch can be installed within 10-15 minutes. That's what we need, to be able to have one of the best distros quickly, without hassle. In the old days, there was an official script, but the Arch devs took it away. So, others created their own. We can only thank them!
36 • @34 Building a concerto (by TebeOdnoy on 2019-10-16 14:27:22 GMT from United States)
Yes of course. But most people want to hear Bach's concertos, not recompose them for themselves. The joy is in the listening, not the composing. But maybe I'm just being practical and don't have tons of free time.
37 • @34 Musical irrelevance (by Angel on 2019-10-16 14:41:30 GMT from Philippines)
I guess to day is the day for irrelevant arguments, music and cars no less. Although in the case of music, there may be some relevance. You get the scales, the paper, and the instruments. You compose the piece, if you have the talent. Then you can listen to it. Yes, only people interested in and capable of composing may apply. To do something you love is not wasted time.
In any instance, if you want Bach's concerto, get it. If you want a car from the dealer, buy it. If you want a ready -to-go distro, get one. Why are you so set on demeaning some else's choices? No one is trying to sell you anything.
38 • Train derailed. (by Friar Tux on 2019-10-16 15:01:43 GMT from Canada)
Hmmm... It seems the train got derailed by the time we got to comment 34. Folks, these are comments, not personal attacks. There's no need to defend any 'position' - though it does make for good drama. Arch is what it is. So are all the Arch derivatives. Me, personally, I like my car/toaster/erector set pre-built and fine tuned. I'm too busy with other things to be bothered with building it myself. As for having a server - nah. I prefer to store my stuff on my laptop's hard drive (and back up to an external drive). In my 68 years on this big ball of dirt I've come to the conclusion that the more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes. I try to keep things as simple as possible.
39 • @37, @38 Musical irrelevance (by TebeOdnoy on 2019-10-16 15:45:18 GMT from United States)
38 - The voice of wisdom & reason
37 - Musical irrelevance. It's called an argument by analogy. Both software creation and classical music creation are similar in that they have similar properties; desire, work, talent and so on. The end result is not the basis of the argument.
40 • @37, @38, @39 Finally! Common sense! (by falcon52 on 2019-10-16 16:13:20 GMT from United States)
It's refreshing to see some adult attitudes in the comments!!
37 - No one is trying to sell you anything.
38 - I try to keep things as simple as possible.
39 - The end result is not the basis of the argument.
41 • Trains, cars and musical relevance (by Angel on 2019-10-16 16:46:27 GMT from Philippines)
@38 -I have 5 years on you, and I also like things simple. Haven't many "important" things to do, but I do have things I enjoy doing. I don't use Arch. My main distro is KDE neon. Install, adjust, run: simple. Also have Solus and Tumbleweed running, among others, just because I like to try things. I've done it the Arch way and the LFS way, partly because I've earned my money helping people fix things, but mostly because I very much enjoy "feeding my ego and wasting my time." I still delve into the software, and even the physical guts of laptops when someone I like asks. Not for money, but for love. One thing I have learned through the years: There are more ways than my way and the wrong way.
@35 -I have also installed Arch "that way." I wish I could say it was all rosy, but I do swear at computers often, even installing Ubuntu or Windows sometimes. Still, I learned and enjoyed. Like you, I don't spend the time to go "from scratch" these days, but If others do, I hope they have fun along with the swearing.
@39 -Yes, talent is needed to compose music, or to play it well, but none is needed to listen. Cellos and bananas.
42 • arch way (by spb on 2019-10-16 17:57:14 GMT from Sweden)
Sorry to get involved here. But what's the point? The arch way pr not, you're still end up running a systemd OS.
That was all.
43 • @ 41 (by OstroL on 2019-10-16 17:58:14 GMT from Poland)
"I hope they have fun along with the swearing."
They should start with Gentoo. Good luck to them!
44 • Just Chill Out ... (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-17 01:46:19 GMT from Canada)
The only way one can compare any GNU/Linux distro to a car would be
when one pops-up the hood of any distro same tuxie is lurking out just like same "O". No matter what you use!
And, of course, you are the mechanic,
when you start using it and get accustomed to it.
45 • The Systemd Conundrum (by David on 2019-10-17 04:49:31 GMT from United States)
@42
My primary concerns as an Arch user are as follows:
(1) Do my boxes boot up properly - Yes, they do.
(2) Am I able to commence & complete my work in a timely manner - Again, the answer is yes.
(3) Does systemd present an impediment to the full functionality of my PC's, to the extent that I would abandon Arch as my preferred distro - My answer is a resounding No.
I do not profess to be an Arch, or any Linux distro expert. I've tested two non-systemd Arch derivatives, Obarun & Artix, and neither of those distros worked for me efficiently in supporting my work flow.
I believe an intriguing future survey question might be - "Have you abandoned your favored distro because it deployed systemd as its init daemon process, and migrated to a non-systemd distro?"
If anyone reading this posting can provide any reliable statistics to address this question, I would be interested in reading those numbers.
JMHO
46 • Cars, toasters and mechanics (by Hoos on 2019-10-17 05:27:04 GMT from Singapore)
Agree with @38.
To each their own.
Some people want to DIY, to make and be the mechanic of their own car. Some prefer to use a car ready-made, as out of the box and maintenance-free as possible, and are willing to buy a new car every few years.
Some others are somewhere in-between; they get a ready-made car but are willing to roll up their sleeves and do their own maintenance to keep the car running indefinitely.
Nothing wrong with any of that, there are distros galore to suit all kinds.
47 • Anything goes which works out-of-box (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-17 05:34:41 GMT from Canada)
I really don't much care about sysV, systemd or wayland,
as long as it works. I frequently use Manjaro (KDE).
Ocassionally LinuxMint (MATE), PCLOS, and MX as well.
Some times I drive in (D and O-D), and sometimes (R).
I really do not care as long as it is moving.
48 • Librem 5 (by Johannes on 2019-10-17 06:18:12 GMT from Germany)
I can't comment anymore on DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 834, sorry to be not in the right place. I wanted to thank you for reporting about the Librem 5 release. I had never heard about this Linux phone – I wish they would cooperate with the Fairphone here in Europe. Both Librem and Fairphone have really different approaches though – both unique and really interesting!
49 • @45 David: (by dragonmouth on 2019-10-17 12:00:35 GMT from United States)
"(3) Does systemd present an impediment to the full functionality of my PC's"
The only way to really determine whether systemd does or does not impact the full functionality of a distro is to run the same distro with the same mix of apps with systemd and then another init software. Comparing how Arch with systemd performs to how Obarun and Artix perform without systemd cannot give a true picture. There are too many differences. It's like comparing Debian to PCLinuxOS.
50 • arch way + systemd (by spb on 2019-10-17 15:10:23 GMT from Sweden)
I don't care If systemd has an impact or not. It won't run on any of my systems period. I've already migrated one machine to BSD and will migrate my other one if needed. No systemd.
51 • No More Distro-Hopping (by David on 2019-10-17 18:49:33 GMT from United States)
@49
I acknowledge that all of your points are valid, relative to the differences between distros.
After having distrohopped like an insane bunny rabbit on steroids, and during that period, having auditioned dozens of distros, both systemd & non-systemd, I narrowed my search for the ideal disto down to the Arch branch.
Artix & Obarun were the last of all the Arch derivatives that I tried and failed with. I should say that Archman, this week's reviewed distro, was the most problematic to install and run successfully of all the Arch-based distros that I tested on my hardware, with Manjaro running a close second place.
I then discovered the Anarchy Linux installer, which installs a 99.9% pure & stable Arch system, with zero negative operational issues, on all four of my boxes.
I've been able to reverse-engineer my working knowledge of Arch using the Arco Linux videos on YouTube, without having to install the beautiful but bloated Arco distro, as well as the Arch wiki.
So, yes I've tested all of my required packages on several dozen distros, and my distrohopping days ended when I standardized with Arch, systemd and all.
@50
I absolutely respect your aversion to, and refusal to run, systemd.
JMHO
52 • No one forces no one ... (by Luxie Tuxie on 2019-10-18 01:38:49 GMT from Canada)
GNU/Linux offers vast variety of plethora choices to users as compared to proprietary OSes. GNU offers absolute freedom to be a mechanic,
Linux offers multiple choices of SWs bearing same functionality.
Many distros offer bare-minimum builds, or one can simply strip-out all un-wanted SWs, and add required.
Stripping out systemd to sysV will not work,
For those who prefers sysV has to select distro built with sysV.
No one forces no one what to use or what not to, Oligarchie Goliaths are exceptions.
Anyone is free to try-out anything and figure-out how it works!
53 • @52 stripping out systemd for sysV (by Hoos on 2019-10-18 02:37:42 GMT from Singapore)
"Stripping out systemd to sysV will not work,
For those who prefers sysV has to select distro built with sysV."
At least for now, MX Linux does allow sysv to coexist with systemd, even though its parent Debian no longer does it.
Users can choose between booting into systemd or the default sysv from the grub menu.
54 • @53: (by dragonmouth on 2019-10-18 11:47:06 GMT from United States)
While what you say is true, systemd and related software cannot be removed from MX.
55 • @54 (by anticapitalista on 2019-10-18 12:27:01 GMT from Greece)
Not totally true. It is possible to remove systemd from MX, but it is not easy.
56 • @49 and 54 (by Hoos on 2019-10-18 13:15:02 GMT from Singapore)
In @49 , you said "The only way to really determine whether systemd does or does not impact the full functionality of a distro is to run the same distro with the same mix of apps with systemd and then another init software. "
I was merely pointing out that you could run MX with sysv and then with systemd. That way, you could see how the exact same installed distro runs with either init system.
Would it really be necessary to remove the systemd and related software packages in order to carry out your test as described above? If sysv is running as init, then surely systemd isn't running, even if the relevant packages were still there on the distro?
57 • @56 (cont) (by Hoos on 2019-10-18 13:19:20 GMT from Singapore)
Of course, if a user's position is that they do not even want any systemd-related packages on their distro, I respect that.
I was just directly addressing the points in @49 in my earlier posts.
58 • MX sans systemd at boot time (by nanome on 2019-10-18 13:57:23 GMT from United Kingdom)
I don't have the energy to install MX right now [getting old], but even if booting without systemd shows no trace of it [eg pstree], the question then arises as to why anticapitalista [the AntiX author] created AntiX.
59 • @58 (by Hoos on 2019-10-18 15:18:09 GMT from Singapore)
antiX was created as an offshoot of Mepis originally - one that was lightweight and utilised window managers. I doubt systemd existed when antiX was first released in 2007.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AntiX
Along the way antiX became completely systemd-free.
But MX is not antiX, merely built on its base:
"MX Linux began in a discussion about future options among members of the MEPIS community in December 2013. Developers from antiX then joined them, bringing the ISO build system as well as the Live-USB/DVD technology. In order to be listed on DistroWatch, MX Linux was initially presented as a version of antiX."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MX_Linux
There is a lot of cross-pollination/overlapping between the 2 communities and sets of developers, but they are different distros targeting different users.
When there is respect for one another and everyone's differing views or opinions, people can get along and work together well, benefiting all.
60 • MX versus AntiX (by nanome on 2019-10-18 15:58:56 GMT from United Kingdom)
@59: thanks for the history lesson, I suspected it was complicated.
Number of Comments: 60
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